Alvarro
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| 09/05/2006 3:29 PM |
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Had a little flash of insight. Why don't we take a page form the heavies and authorize people by weapon for C&T?
C&T with a "light" rapier (hanwei, del tin, etc.) is a totally different beast than C&T with a backsword or "heavy" rapier (del tin sidesword, etc.)
Not to mention the different fighting styles inherent in each. This would allow us to authorize someone for what is basically rapier with percussion, but not for something that ups the damage potential like a nice mortuary sword.
Throwing it out for discussion...
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Prudence. Temperance. Fortitude. Justice. |
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jgreywolf
Hai Gioco?
Posts:682
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| 09/05/2006 4:15 PM |
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We already do this. You can authorize for Rapier Rapier combat as follows:
Rapier, Brace of Rapiers, RBG, C&T
So you are thinking of adding something like: C&T "Light" and C&T "Heavy"?
Not sure that I see much benefit in making this distinction. Does this mean that we would then hold tournaments which were C&T Light only, or C&T Heavy only? |
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Justin Greywolf (SCA: Ramon Diaz de la Vega)
Director
Old World Martial Arts - Teaching Historical Italian Swordplay in the Pacific Northwest |
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Alvarro
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Posts:301
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| 09/05/2006 4:46 PM |
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Nope, everyone fights everyone, but you have to qualify for the weapon first. The heavy hitters currently are the backswords. The advantage to doing this now is makes it easy to slot in "longsword" later.  |
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Prudence. Temperance. Fortitude. Justice. |
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Mat
Provost
Posts:123
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| 09/06/2006 12:24 AM |
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It's a cool idea, but I think the armor requirements would have to be upped if the two are mixed.
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Git-r-dun! |
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jgreywolf
Hai Gioco?
Posts:682
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| 09/06/2006 9:08 AM |
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| Nope. C&T is C&T, no matter the blade used (as long as it is approved for C&T). That means that the Armor req are the same. |
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Justin Greywolf (SCA: Ramon Diaz de la Vega)
Director
Old World Martial Arts - Teaching Historical Italian Swordplay in the Pacific Northwest |
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Hakim
Scholar
Posts:26
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| 09/06/2006 3:02 PM |
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Alvarro,
I don't see a drastic difference between rapier blades. In heavy there is: two handed vs. one handed, 9' long vs.3'long, 2 pounds vs. 5 pounds. So I don't really see the need for the two classes of cut and thrust. What this about slotting in "Longsword"?
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Hakim
student to Don Enoch |
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Alvarro
Too many posts...
Posts:301
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| 09/06/2006 10:10 PM |
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Hakim,
You likely haven't seen the blades we are talking about. The del tin sidesword blade is about...double? the width of the del tin bated rapier (which sometimes called the del tin doublewide.) It hits with a substantially different level of force than any blade approved for use for SCA rapier.
The Hanwei Mortuary sword is a single hand basket hilted sword with basically zero flex on the thrust. It takes a skilled hand to wield, and is capable of...well... it's in a category of it's own. It's a joy to handle because of how it can dominate another a blade, and it's as responsive as a. Hm. Well, anyway, yes, they are quite different. Probably moreso that heavy weapons, because they have radically different handling characteristics.
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Prudence. Temperance. Fortitude. Justice. |
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Jon Barber
Scholar
Posts:25
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| 09/07/2006 3:31 PM |
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Posted By Alvarro on 09-06-2006 10:10 PM
Hakim,
The Hanwei Mortuary sword is a single hand basket hilted sword with basically zero flex on the thrust. It takes a skilled hand to wield, and is capable of...well... it's in a category of it's own. It's a joy to handle because of how it can dominate another a blade, and it's as responsive as a. Hm. Well, anyway, yes, they are quite different. Probably moreso that heavy weapons, because they have radically different handling characteristics.
And while it's way spiffy (though too light - have you handled their practical baskethilts yet?) AFAIK it's no longer on the list of approved blades for cut-n-thrust.
Jon
Aten C&T guy |
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Alvarro
Too many posts...
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| 09/07/2006 3:47 PM |
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Isn't it? Darn, but oh well. The joy of running ones own school. 
Yup, we have all three practical baskethilts in the school. Gotta admit though, I'm having the most stupid fun with the pecarroro sabres.
We should get the mortuary back on the list... |
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Prudence. Temperance. Fortitude. Justice. |
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Mat
Provost
Posts:123
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| 09/08/2006 4:06 AM |
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Posted By jgreywolf on 09-06-2006 9:08 AM
Nope. C&T is C&T, no matter the blade used (as long as it is approved for C&T). That means that the Armor req are the same. My bad?
I mean, a cut and thrust sword will most likely hit with more force, so in a mixed tourney, a rapier fighter used to standard rapier on rapier strikes, will have to anticipate for more cuts that may or may not hit harder, resulting in possible injury?
Now personally, I don't really know much about a cut and thrust sword and how it compares to rapier combat. Any input, or references, would be most helpful!
And then there's abreviations...AFAIK? like, is that uktuk for "I'm on fire? HELP ME, FOR THE LOVE OF ST PETERSBERGH?!" |
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Git-r-dun! |
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jgreywolf
Hai Gioco?
Posts:682
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| 09/08/2006 9:14 AM |
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There are no mixed tournies for C&T and Rapier. They are two totally separate activities underneath the Rapier Marshalate.
AFAIK = As Far As I Know |
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Justin Greywolf (SCA: Ramon Diaz de la Vega)
Director
Old World Martial Arts - Teaching Historical Italian Swordplay in the Pacific Northwest |
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Mat
Provost
Posts:123
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| 09/08/2006 1:09 PM |
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Ohhh, okay. That's what I wanted to know. |
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Git-r-dun! |
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Jon Barber
Scholar
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| 09/08/2006 3:17 PM |
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Posted By Alvarro on 09-07-2006 3:47 PM Isn't it? Darn, but oh well. The joy of running ones own school.  Yup, we have all three practical baskethilts in the school. Gotta admit though, I'm having the most stupid fun with the pecarroro sabres. We should get the mortuary back on the list...
Yeah, ain't it nice to be able to do what you want?
I was underwhelmed with the Hanwei sabers - the guards were OK, neither of the blades worked right. I'm looking long and hard at the Darkwood ones though, I'd just prefer to handle one before I drop the money on them. Arms and Armor was supposedly working with somebody to repro an authentic one - I should check up on that.
Eh - I agree, for the SCA the CASI mortuary hilts don't flex enough. Now, take a 37" Darkwood bated rapier blade and have Scott mount it in a mortuary hilt (he makes nice ones) - not accurate, but light and fast? Hmmm.... |
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Luciano
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| 09/08/2006 5:04 PM |
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I had two of the Darkwood sabers for a while last year. We broke one of them, and sent them back to Darkwood. I attacked to the inside high line with a cut, and my opponent attempted to parry the cut. His blade went "sprong" and he then had a much shorter blade.
I found them too heavy for an Italian Dueling saber. They would generate too much momentum when you cut with them, needing more strength to weld them then should be necessary. They were better then the first couple of sabers Scott made though, so he was getting closer to right. The guards, of course, were really nice though. I keep meaning to check back with him to see if he's gotten the weight down on them.
David |
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jgreywolf
Hai Gioco?
Posts:682
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| 09/09/2006 8:11 PM |
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Perhaps we can get Gus to start making Saber blades. All we need to do is to find a good source for the hilts. Not that the conversation has been had or anything. ahem. Or that I am looking for good hilts
tra la la la |
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Justin Greywolf (SCA: Ramon Diaz de la Vega)
Director
Old World Martial Arts - Teaching Historical Italian Swordplay in the Pacific Northwest |
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MollyModine
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Posts:134
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| 09/10/2006 10:41 PM |
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Just a quick note here ... Hakim I have a 38" sidesword.
I'll bring it out one of the next times around so you can see the difference between it and a rapier.
Morgan, at Crown Prospere and ... someone (damn memory) were working on sidesword ... hard elbow and knee protection, and bracers are recommended and this was just a practice situation they were in.
At the end of the day it's not for me, it's cool to watch, I'd love to learn and practice the style but I don't want to get hit with that blade and the force regardless of increased armour. |
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Molly Modine, Hafoc
Cadet to Monseignor Prospere de Montsegur
Thorn of the Sable Rose, Argent |
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Hakim
Scholar
Posts:26
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| 09/11/2006 12:14 AM |
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Ok molly, How about at the next shire practice?
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Hakim
student to Don Enoch |
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MollyModine
Provost
Posts:134
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| 09/11/2006 7:57 AM |
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Hakim possibly, but I have a tight work load this week.
Anyhow if you want to continue on this lets move discussion to the Appledore list. |
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Molly Modine, Hafoc
Cadet to Monseignor Prospere de Montsegur
Thorn of the Sable Rose, Argent |
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