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don_gregorio
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Posts:15
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| 05/06/2006 11:52 AM |
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This subject was brought up in the "Who is participating in the Western Martial Arts?" thread, so it seems like it's probably a good time for me to chime in. For those who do not know, I have recently been accepted as the Kingdom Deputy Minister of Historic Combat Arts & Sciences for the Kingdom of AnTir (I have to come up with a shorter way of saying that). In other words, if you are in AnTir and are doing combat A&S at an event, I should be getting a report about it.
So, what is Historic Combat A&S? I would recommend that you take a look at the guidelines that were approved by the society board of directors: http://www.sca.org/officers/arts/AandS_martial_public_proposal.pdf (You'll need Adobe Acrobat to view it). Rather than jumping in with interpreting things, I suggest that those of you who are interested read through the rules and, if you have any comments or questions, post them here.
BTW, I'm still looking for reporting deputies for Inlands Region, and the Principalities of Avacal and TirRigh. If you are interested or curious about one of those positions, drop me an email at gregorio@historiccombat.com.
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Jon Barber
Scholar
Posts:25
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| 05/08/2006 11:13 PM |
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Hey, good for you! I'm the deputy down here in Atenveldt and so far it's been some good fun.
John Patrick |
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Lessingham
Provost
Posts:112
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| 05/10/2006 11:25 PM |
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| You might want to list who your regional deputies are so people know who to report to. |
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"The Will is the captain general of our army and our fortress."
1587 F. Ghisliero pg. 108 |
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welder
Provost
Posts:95
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| 05/12/2006 10:38 AM |
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Gregorio,
Is there a list of upcoming An Tir WMA A&S classes somewhere? Heck, is there a list of upcoming A&S classes of any flavor? I've tried the An Tir Calendar of Events, but it is not really designed to give me that information easily. I'm also interested in the requirements for classes (documentation, peer review, etc) but I can't seem to find any info on that either, though I've looked through antir.sca.org and the wiki. It feels like there must be an A&S section on the website that I'm just missing somehow.
I'm pleased to see WMA entering the Arts & Sciences curriculum, since A&S has always been one of the things I've most admired about the SCA.
-William |
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welder
Provost
Posts:95
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| 05/12/2006 11:12 AM |
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Another question for you, Gregorio.
I think that is is safe to say that the relationship between the SCA and the wider WMA community has been rocky in the past. Indeed, I would describe the two as "estranged" in many ways. Many of the top WMA instructors with whom I've spoken seem to have been discouraged by their interaction with the SCA in the past. The fact that these new guidelines inspire such hope is also a reminder that until now WMA/SCA interactions have been hit-or-miss propositions with a tale of rejection for every success story. Justified or not, many WMA instructors and students have written off the SCA.
I think this is a sad thing. It makes baby Saviolo cry.
My question is this: do you, as KDMHCASKA, intend to reach out to the wider WMA community in any way? And if so, how? As one example, could we expect to see, say, Sean Hayes or Christian Tobler teaching an A&S class at an SCA event?
-William |
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Jon Barber
Scholar
Posts:25
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| 05/12/2006 11:22 AM |
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Posted By welder on 05-12-2006 11:11 AM
Another question
I think that is is safe to say that the relationship between the SCA and the wider WMA community has been rocky in the past. Indeed, I would describe the two as "estranged" in many ways. Many of the top WMA instructors with whom I've spoken seem to have been discouraged by their interaction with the SCA in the past. The
I think this is a sad thing. It makes baby Saviolo cry.
My question is this: do you, as KDMHCASKA, intend to reach out to the wider WMA community in any way? And if so, how? As one example, could we expect to see, say, Sean Hayes or Christian Tobler teaching an A&S class at an SCA event?
-William
I don't think it's quite as bad as you think, William. All of the Tattershall instructors have been and are willing to teach at SCA events. Brian Price, Chris Tobler, Robert Holland and Bob Charron have all taught at SCA events in the recent past. I think any of the better-known WMA instructors I know would be willing to do so if they thought there was a serious audience, they wouldn't be overly restricted by any SCA rules and their financial requirements (which are legitimate) would be met.
Jon |
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welder
Provost
Posts:95
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| 05/12/2006 11:59 AM |
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Oh, I don't mean to suggest that it is some unbridgeable rift. And, for the record, neither do I mean to imply anything about Sean or Christian's relative regard for the SCA. Christian was, perhaps, a bad choice to illustrate my point since he does, as you point out, already work regularly with the SCA. Perhaps Cecil Longino or Antone Blair would be better illustrations since they and Sean are relatively local and do not get much interaction with SCA A&S as far as I know. Heck, the Martinezes even. Stephen Hand.
These are folks who are well-regarded in the wider WMA community and yet are not (I think) active in the SCA. This is the set of folks I was thinking of.
-William
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don_gregorio
Scholar
Posts:15
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| 05/12/2006 7:06 PM |
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Here are is the list of regional deputies as it now stands.
Principality of the Summits: Luciano Foscari
Principality of Avacal: Open
Principality of Tir Righ: Prospere de Montsegur
Western Region: Hobbe de Conyers
Rivers Region: Me
Inlands Region: Open
As you can see, I'm still looking to fill a couple of positions.
~Gregorio
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don_gregorio
Scholar
Posts:15
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| 05/12/2006 7:14 PM |
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The idea of an upcoming class calendar is something that I'm tossing around. At this point, the program is too brand spanking new for that to be a major priority at the moment, however.
As to requirements for classes, you should be able to reasonbly demonstrate (from an academic perspective) that what you are teaching has some sort of basis in historic record. You aren't expected to produce a doctoral dissertation on the subject (although, if that's what you want to do, I won't try to stop you), but there needs to be some research involved. This can range from excerpts from whatever treatise to archaelogical evidence, portrayals in art, etc. Personally, I'm not going to have a problem with someone presenting a class on gladiatorial combat as evidenced in roman urn paintings, but "Proper use of the Klingon Batleth" wouldn't cut it for Combat A&S by a long shot.
The current website for AnTir A&S is
http://www.currentmiddleages.org/artsci/
~Gregorio
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don_gregorio
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Posts:15
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| 05/12/2006 7:38 PM |
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First off, what John said.
Second. Honestly, at this stage in the process, encouraging WMA instructors to "give the SCA another chance" is not one of my top priorities at this point. Don't get me wrong, I have NO INTENTION of excluding members of the broader WMA community from participaitng in combat A&S. Far from it. If they're interested in teaching here and folks here are interested in learning from them, I'll do what I can to make it happen.
It just comes down to this. What we have is a new set of guidelines, and a few folks who are interested in implementing them. Most of us were interested in doing this stuff well before the rules came out, so, frankly the immediate impact is fairly minimal. It's more or less the same SCA, we've just got a little more room to
play in it. Trying to convince people that the change is bigger than
that is, in my opinion, dishonest and likely to do more harm than good.
My current focus is on getting the SCA used to this Combat A&S thing, and building a community. I think that fora such as this one are a good start to that. Likewise, a number of us are working on presenting combat A&S classes at events that we're going to. If folks are interested in coming to the Three Mountains (Portland, OR) area, we've got a number of such classes going on at both Tryggvy's War and Bows and Blades, which are in July and August, respectively. Likewise, I'm planning to be at May Crown and July Coronation if folks want to get together at either of those events for an informal roundtable/social kind of thing at either of those things, I'm sure that we can set something up.
~Gregorio
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welder
Provost
Posts:95
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| 05/12/2006 9:18 PM |
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Gregorio,
That sounds reasonable. I hope my questions don't come across as bulldogging; I well understand that you have a job of work ahead of you.
-William |
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don_gregorio
Scholar
Posts:15
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| 05/12/2006 10:19 PM |
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No problem. The more questions we ask and the more dialogue we have, the better idea we'll all have of what we're looking for and how to make it happen.
Gregorio
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Marten
Scholar
Posts:15
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| 05/15/2006 3:01 PM |
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| Since there are Japanese personas within the SCA [I'm not trying to open a can of worms as to whether there should be - assume a ladder as engineers are wont to say], are DOCUMENTABLE JSA demonstrations of, e.g., batto jutsu a valid SCA Historical combat A&S subject? |
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Marten Claeszen van Rosenveldt
Cadet to Maître Guillaume dela Rapiére |
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don_gregorio
Scholar
Posts:15
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| 05/16/2006 8:22 PM |
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I'm not particularly interested in telling people what they can and can't study or whether their persuits are valid. As far as I'm concerned, if you can document it to within SCA period (preferably using period sources or interpretations thereof), I don't see a problem with it. As far as I can tell, the rules do not specify that the martial arts must be European, or even Western. Use your judgement, and determine for yourself whether or not what you are working with "fits." As with all things, just be prepared for the fact that some folks might not agree with you. I'm sure that's something we're all fairly used to by now.
Gregorio
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Marten
Scholar
Posts:15
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| 05/17/2006 7:22 AM |
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Don Gregorio,
Thank you very much for your quick and kindly reply.
Marten
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Marten Claeszen van Rosenveldt
Cadet to Maître Guillaume dela Rapiére |
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