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Romeo13
Free Scholar
Posts:36
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| 06/25/2007 9:22 AM |
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| Quick question....
Are you an SCA member who fences?
Or...
Are you a Fencer who joined the SCA to fence?
As someone who travels from Kingdom to Kingdom, this... dichotomy... is becoming clearer as time passes... |
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Raoul
Has a lot to say...
Posts:268
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| 06/25/2007 9:53 AM |
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I started in the SCA before there was rapier. I had no experience with fencing before the SCA. So I guess you'd have to say I was an SCA member who discovered fencing in it.
Things are different now. If you are interested in historical swordplay, there are other venues to explore that, whereas when I was starting, the SCA was the only option. Where I live, it still is.
The best way to answer this may be to ask yourself, "If I sustained an injury that made me unable to fence, would I still be involved in the SCA?"
Raoul |
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"So let us go and get killed where we are told to go. Is life worth the trouble of so many questions?" -Athos |
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TdB
Free Scholar
Posts:58
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| 06/25/2007 10:09 AM |
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Hmm, I'm guessing you're seeing completely different attitudes towards life, the universe, and everything from the two groups.
I joined the SCA so I could fight rapier. Back in 1990, there weren't any WMA groups around (heck, in Calgary, there still aren't any WMA groups around). I quickly got sucked in by some of the other aspects, did my time holding principality offices, etc. - I was by no means in it just for the fighting. Then I moved to core, found it way less fun than Avacal, and stuck around only for the fighting. Joined a WMA group and stopped attending SCA events entirely. Last year I moved back to Avacal, discovered again that the SCA can be a lot of fun, and am enjoying more than just fighting again.
Because I'm primarily a rapier fighter, fighting in the SCA because it's the only venue open to me, I do focus more on the fighting than the people who joined the SCA for fun, then discovered rapier, and do it as an extension of their fun in the SCA. I've been labeled an elitist bastard for years and years because I'd rather fight a smaller number of elite fighters than great swaths of weekend warriors. I've hated fibreglass blades since good steel simulators became available. I don't care that eliminating crappy simulators will prevent some crappy fighters from clogging up the eric. I've never believed that rapier should be open to anyone who wants to play but isn't willing to invest anything at all in order to do so. Like any hobby, there are going to be entry costs. My theory has always been "If you aren't willing to pay those costs, don't take up the hobby".
The weekend warriors - the folks who are in it just for fun, who show up to practices for the social aspect rather than to improve their fighting - these people outnumber those of us who see rapier as an art and the SCA as a venue. For the vast majority of SCA fighters, the SCA is the focus, the fighting is just another enjoyable aspect of the whole experience. The SCA is huge and difficult to steer, because most of the people involved just want to have fun, and don't take it seriously. Fortunately, the people who aspire to be kingdom rapier marshall have thus far always been on the more serious side, so the rules have been sensible, and we have managed to move toward good simulators and common sense rules (armoring rules designed by litigation-wary lawyers rather than dictated by sense notwithstanding).
At some point, I gave up on the SCA as a good venue for pure rapier combat. I will still try to nudge the rules that way, but I understand and reluctantly accept that it will always favor fun over fervor, and litigation-safety over common sense. And really, that vast number of weekend warrior fighting for fun types are what allowed the game to reach critical mass so that those of us who do treat it as a serious art have access to better and better gear, and provided us with a place to meet other serious fighters, to form WMA groups. Maybe it's just because I'm back in Avacal where the alcohol flows more freely, the ladies are more lovely, the bards are better, and the events are WAY more fun, but I'm inclined to take the SCA at face value more these days, enjoy the fighting as best I can, and not sweat the small stuff.
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OK, fine, I'm unapproachable. Keep your distance or I'll pez you. |
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Eira
Provost
Posts:79
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| 06/25/2007 11:56 AM |
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Maybe it's just because I'm back in Avacal where the alcohol flows more freely, the ladies are more lovely, the bards are better, and the events are WAY more fun
Aww, we like you too Thore 
For me I didn't fight when I first joined the SCA, I eventually figured out it was just one of the many fun things I could do in the SCA and decided to make it one of my main acitivies, because all my friends were doing it.
Since then I've evolved a little bit, I put a bit more effort into than the people I started with, but my main goal is still just fun. I try to improve my skills, but in the end if I'm not having fun then it's not worth it. |
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Eira Halladottir, Man-At-Arms to Cadet Hamish MacCarraig |
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Tora
Provost
Posts:101
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| 06/25/2007 2:28 PM |
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I am the fencer who practices within the SCA. If another group were to come along with a sufficient number of rapier fighters then I would be the fencer who practices within that organization as well. |
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Tora
I'm the optimist who plans for when the pessimist is right. |
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TdB
Free Scholar
Posts:58
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| 06/25/2007 3:30 PM |
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Was my "can't we all just get along" post too early in the thread? Sorry.
Rapier > SCA. If I couldn't fight, I wouldn't stick around the SCA.
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OK, fine, I'm unapproachable. Keep your distance or I'll pez you. |
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Alvarro
Too many posts...
Posts:301
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| 06/25/2007 3:44 PM |
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When I'm at an SCA event, I'm an SCA member who fences.
For me, at least, there are other venues to be a pure fighter. I'm happy to fit myself into the SCA game, and modify what I do to conform to the social experiment. If I wasn't interested in that, I wouldn't play in the SCA.
It doesn't exist to be a fencing venue, it exists to try and recreate certain ideals. If you aren't interested in that aspect...You are in the wrong place, really.
The question used to be "if you couldn't fence in the SCA, would you still participate?"
The question in a while will be "If you can fence in so many other venues, what keeps you in the SCA?"
Well, aside from heavy fighting. 
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Prudence. Temperance. Fortitude. Justice. |
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Guillemin
Provost
Posts:120
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| 06/25/2007 6:18 PM |
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Posted By Raoul on 06-25-2007 9:53 AM
The best way to answer this may be to ask yourself, "If I sustained an injury that made me unable to fence, would I still be involved in the SCA?"
Raoul
I've never hesitated when asked that one. If hurt beyond repair, the SCA wouldn't hold enough appeal to keep me as involved as I am now. I would still hang with the friends I've made, but I'd rarely if ever travel to events.
It's been the same since I joined. Without rapier, the SCA would have been a bunch of folks in weird clothing and I wouldn't have hung around. |
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Guillemin de Rouen
Cadet to Raoul Delaroche
Rapier Champion of Avacal |
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Morleigh
Free Scholar
Posts:61
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| 06/25/2007 6:23 PM |
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| I like the SCA outside of rapier, I like rapier outside of the SCA, but I like them best together. |
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Rhodric
Novice
Posts:6
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| 06/25/2007 10:28 PM |
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| As a relative newb to both... I must agree. Separate or apart, I'd rather have them together. |
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Tora
Provost
Posts:101
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| 06/26/2007 11:52 AM |
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Posted By Morleigh on 06-25-2007 6:23 PM
I like the SCA outside of rapier, I like rapier outside of the SCA, but I like them best together.
And thus the peanut butter cup was born.  |
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Tora
I'm the optimist who plans for when the pessimist is right. |
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Sebastien
Has a lot to say...
Posts:207
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| 06/26/2007 1:47 PM |
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| I was doing Olympic fencing when I joined the sca but I joined the SCA for the SCA (historical geek). Back then rapier was olympic fencing with funny clothes so it was not anything special. In fact I did heavy fighting first in the sca. But as Rapier combat has evolved I have found it so much more fun that it is the main part of the SCA for me. Like most folks who have done this for a long time I've stepped away at times because of politics and egos but I keep getting drawn back in and it becomes fun again. Presently I'm having a blast and a big part of it is going to places outside my local area and meeting/fighting new people. |
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Sebastien de Caen
There is no kill like overkill. |
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RuaidhriMacCuileann
Free Scholar
Posts:59
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| 06/26/2007 3:41 PM |
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I've been playing with one sort of medievalist group or another since I was a teen, which was a while ago (I was one of those young punks who thought that new dirt stuff was pretty cool, much to Dormouse's chagrin). It's only been the last 10 years or so that I got into rapier, so I guess in that way I'm an SCA person who does fencing. On the other hand, for the past several years, I've been mostly focused on WMA pursuits, with relatively little SCA involvement, so in that way, I'm a fencer who does SCA. If I was permanantly gimped, I'd probably still hang with the SCA. I like the atmosphere, the music, the costuming, and the artwork too much to give it up entirely.
These days, I mostly stay inside (where there's air conditioning) and bitch about the sorry state of both fencing and SCA in north Texas. Truth is, I haven't given either one much of a chance. I hope to get involved again once I have Life(tm) back in order. I have a job and a house now, and I'm still married, so maybe it won't be too long. 
I miss you people! It may take a while, but I fervently hope to cross blades and raise glasses with each and every one of you again.
Regards,
W. Scott Simmons
aka Ruaidhri Mac Cuileann dal gCais
Cadet to Don Tyrus of Misty Haven
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Talentus
Provost
Posts:121
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| 06/26/2007 9:55 PM |
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I am an SCA person that fights, probably. I started playing in the SCA before i was old enough to fight (about 12) so the SCA is part of who i am. I was such a big part of making me who i am today that even i was unable to fight, i am sure i would still participate.
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Talentus "Talon" del Albero |
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jgreywolf
Hai Gioco?
Posts:682
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| 06/27/2007 6:45 AM |
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For the longest time I was only in the SCA for rapier. While I am not sure that this was really the intent of the original question - if I could not fight rapier then yes, I would still play. Er. Case in point, I have not fought at an event since 12th Night, and I probably should nto have done that. I will not be picking up a blade (to fight with!) for at least another year or so.
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Justin Greywolf (SCA: Ramon Diaz de la Vega)
Director
Old World Martial Arts - Teaching Historical Italian Swordplay in the Pacific Northwest |
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Edmund the Lame
Scholar
Posts:16
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| 07/05/2007 1:53 AM |
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| Interesting question
When I joined the SCA in 1986 there was no rapier in Lochac (Australia) so I started with heavy combat, service (constabulary etc) and socializing. Moved states and SCA groups in 1989
Francois and I stared off SCA Rapier in Lochac in 1990, and I did 25th both rapier and heavy but only rapier at 30th. Last fought heavy in about 1996 and with decrepit knees am unlikely to go back to it.
Whilst single I was still heavily involved in the social, organisational and fencing sides of the SCA across Lochac. However spent a lot of time teaching fencing and having ball doing so with fibreglass then schlager.
Since getting married in 1997, buying farms, starting businesses and a family I have concentrated my more limited SCA time on rapier whilst keeping in contact with SCA friends.
I find that as I get older and time becomes more scarce and valuable I tend to concentrate on more on the SCA aspects that give me the greatest pleasure for the available time - and that's rapier.
Would I still do SCA if I couldn't fence - probably if I could still make a contribution that gave me pleasure. But given I'm pretty decrepit anyway I hope to fence for many years to come - even if I need to fence from a chair LOL
I don't have the same position as Don Thore (though I did enjoy fencing with him at 30th and hope to do so again sooner rather than leter) but prefer to allow folks to decide on their own level of commitment (financial and timewise) so i find the removal of fibreglass to be counterproductive in bringing people into the fold. BTW - The fibreglass weapons from Lochac were a lot better than the one's I saw in An Tir at 30th. But give people the choice and they will eventually choose a better simulator once they are more committed.
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Lucien
Novice
Posts:8
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| 07/07/2007 9:28 AM |
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I started historical fencing at Academie Duello before I got involved with the SCA.
After a while fighting strictly capo ferro styled fighters got to be a bit tedious and I felt that I was getting a bit stagnant, i decided to start going to SCA events and practices. Personally I like the fun aspect as well, and the varied levels of opponents and styles practiced within the society.
A good bonus about fighting in the SCA is after the fighting, you tend to meet alot of good people and the parties are great too.
However, if another organization started up with a sufficent number of rapier fighters, and fairly realistic rule sets, I wouldn't hesitate to join and fight with them as well.
After all, I'm always looking for more fun, and more challenges, and of course more parties . |
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Lucien de la Montagne D'or
Cadet to HL Dona Lasairiona
Captain of Seagirt's own Grenadiers.
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Mat
Provost
Posts:123
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| 07/09/2007 2:18 AM |
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Honestly, in terms of sca, I only do it for the rapier. I'm not big into dressing up and hanging out in dusty fields pretending I'm living 400 years or so ago.
SCA rapier a lot of the time is like paintball, only with less welts and low velocity rubber bands...
I do agree with Lucien though, you do meet a lot of talented people! 
Personally, I prefer rapier outside of the sca, but as of late, my work schedule interferes with the scheduled practices... |
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Git-r-dun! |
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Draven
Free Scholar
Posts:65
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| 07/09/2007 11:36 PM |
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I would be a fencer that joined the SCA, however if I was physically unable to fight I would still be involved in the Society to a great deal. My focus is on rapier and making period garb for over the past 7 years and I have met a great number of people and fought in numerous events. I love what I do and the people I am involved with the Society with. If there were other groups, hmmm I think I would be involved as well but at a minor level.
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Draven Mac Raith
Cadet to Monseigneur Prospere de Montsegur
"Scar of Tir Righ" Principality Rapier Champion |
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Lessingham
Provost
Posts:112
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| 07/11/2007 4:59 PM |
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When I started the West Kingdom ban on rapier was in full swing. The Summits had no rapier community. We started our own practice with zero contact or input from the rest of the community. Re-built the marshallate structure for rapier in the summits and put in place the Summits rapier championship. We did a lot of non-rapier stuff also.
Probably for my first 2 years of involvement with the SCA I had no involvement with rapier at all. There are lots of other things to hold my interest. Brewing, armoring, heavy fighting, clothing, jewelry, smithing, archery, drumming..... not to mention the excellent company and parties.
These days much of my involvement is rapier related.... but then the SCA tends to have a knack for politicing to death those who volunteer their time. I no longer actively merchant armor at events either.... the system is set up for those doing it as a money making scheme with all the involved paperwork. For me merchanting was part of the hobby and persona. Though I do still pack armor around with me when I have it for sell. |
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"The Will is the captain general of our army and our fortress."
1587 F. Ghisliero pg. 108 |
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