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Alvarro
Too many posts...
Posts:301
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| 10/12/2006 5:12 PM |
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Feh. Dupe.
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Prudence. Temperance. Fortitude. Justice. |
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Alvarro
Too many posts...
Posts:301
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| 10/12/2006 5:24 PM |
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Hum. My reply got eaten. Oh well.
Manciolino kept it simple because the rest of his book covers all the rest of the stuff you need to know. It's a slight addition to the system. Like every period author, they stress that you must learn the system with single sword first, and then apply what you have learned to the new things you will learn. No point in re-iterating everything all the time. Manciolino is really pretty bloody complex just with single sword. Mega footwork system. Trying to incorporate even his few lessons on two sword into the bulk of his single sword material is...daunting.
Remember the guideline from Fiore, which really still applies. When you learn something new, try to make it work with all the previous lessons. So, really, Manciolino has hundreds of lessons for two sword....
No else really writes much on two sword because it just wasn't used much, for obvious reasons...Hell, I find it hard enough to walk around with one sword. |
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Prudence. Temperance. Fortitude. Justice. |
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Blayde
Free Scholar
Posts:56
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| 10/13/2006 8:24 AM |
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I agree with you on that. Using principles, you really don't need plates to walk you through much of anything. I've found the plates in Capo Ferro to be quite simply options you can use based on principles.
There are some instances in case where it would be nice to see some plates. As an example:
Righty v. Righty - You have your opponent's blade stringered in quarta, You find his sword and beat/bind in seconda and make a pass with your left foot while attacking in seconda with your second sword. Your opponent caviazione's over your bind. What do you do? The answer is simple, but I've never seen a plate. In plain English, you have attempted a sweep over the top of your opponent's sword with your right hand, but your opponent sees it coming and cavazione's over the sweep and makes a lunge into quarta on the tempo of the sweep interrupting the pass, then quickly withdraws.
The answer is to parry the cavazione lunge in quarta with your other sword and continue the attack underneath your opponent's arm in quarta. If he has a dagger, he can parry the attack and the phrase continues, but it's a tough parry with today's long SCA daggers. The shorter/stiffer daggers are still effective at stopping it, but it should happen on the same tempo that your opponent lunges after the cavazione.
We see a lot of these in rapier/dagger plates, but it sure would be nice if someone would have left us some nice brace plates. But, you're right, the style wasn't very wide spread for obvious reasons. Who's gonna walk around court with two swords. It would quickly turn into one of those "compensating" jokes. 
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warwick
Provost
Posts:125
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| 10/13/2006 8:49 AM |
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Digrassi dedicates 11 pages to Case of rapiers, and treats them as he would any other weapon combination (that is - an overview, how to handle them, the three wards, the defense of the wards and the hurt of the wards). In his introduction he tells us that to use case you must be able to use your left hand as well as your right, and be extreamely strong, dexterous and nimble, and if the person is not well practiced in this form, the person will "find themselves utterly deceived" (which I interpret as dead).
Some masters covered it, others did not. Economic forces being what they are (and were) if there is a demand there will be a supply. Perhaps Case went in and out of fashion, and so some Masters covered it because there was a market for it, while others did not because at that time the market did not exist.
It may also be important to note that, having spent some time studying Digrassi, it's fairly obvious his techniques (in general) were never meant to be performed with a Cappo Ferro length rapier. A sidesword/transitional rapier (ie a shorter weapon) however, would definately work nicely. Attempting case techniques with a brace of Del Tins compared to a brace of Schlagers makes this abundantly clear.
W
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Blayde
Free Scholar
Posts:56
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| 10/17/2006 8:42 AM |
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Yes, DiGrassi was my first read of case back in the mid 90's. And I totally agree it's a different game compared to a case of Del Tins. For that reason, I don't recommend an actual "case" per se. I prefer to use swords of different lengths. One 36-38 and one 42-45 inch blade respectively makes a good combination.
There's no doubt many fighters pick up a second sword for melee so as not to be outgunned, only to find themselves at a disadvantage when they try to parry downward with their off-hand sword.
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