CM_Unger
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Posts:80
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| 04/13/2007 4:56 AM |
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Death from behind ... can you block it?
I thought it was a no brainer that you could not, though it seems that other marshals have a differing opinion.
My thinking is that you know exactly where the shot is coming (your opponent must put thier sword over your shoulder, or at least into your line of sight) so blocking it would be deliberatly misusing the rules --- which is impropper conduct.
besides under the death from behind section it says :
e. The opponent is deemed "killed" from the instant the blade passes their shoulder, and shall not attempt to spin, duck or dodge away.
AND D.F.B is a minimal or no contact attack.
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Guillemin
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Posts:120
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| 04/13/2007 8:02 AM |
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Not following the rules, not to mention both foolish and dangerous. It's one thing if you see or are told that someone is creeping up behind you and run or spin way before they get to you, but if their sword is over your shoulder you're stuck.
How do you mean block? Like, engage their blade over your shoulder with your own? Although it would be really cool to see someone do that with a dagger while maintaining the fight with the person in front of them, it's still illegal. |
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Guillemin de Rouen
Cadet to Raoul Delaroche
Rapier Champion of Avacal |
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Kristophe
Provost
Posts:77
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| 04/13/2007 9:23 AM |
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I think blocking it would imply that the "blade over the shoulder" would in fact be what we were doing if we attacked someone from behind. I'm sure we could think of many more effective attacks that have no possibility of being blocked.
To my understanding the "death from behind" rule is there to prevent the risk of injury from thrusts or cuts to the back etc. As such, trying to evade a DFB is really snubbing someone who went out of their way NOT to hurt you.
Let's be realistic about this - the opponent:
1. Got behind you.
2. Got close enough to hit you without you doing anything about it.
3. Deliberately DIDN'T hurt you and used a DFB.
Honestly, people should realize they are dead at point 2, nevermind the DFB. You already lost if the opponent got to that point.
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CM_Unger
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Posts:80
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| 04/13/2007 9:29 AM |
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since the FCE is through the shoulder line, it is very possible that you can be aware of the person who is going to DFB you. and they cannot shank you in the side.
Many fighters present a profile view of themselves when they fight, so that the FCE is not necessarily the same way they are fighting. in an extreme stance I could be looking directly over my sword shoulde. any attacks on my outside mine would be outside my FCE and my opponent would be allowed to DFB me. (personally I'd rather be hit in that case, but it's against our rule set)
not really an answer to your question. |
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warwick
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Posts:119
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| 04/16/2007 8:27 AM |
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Once the blade is in over your shoulder (from behind, from the side it needs to be in front of your face) you're dead. I suppose if you saw them coming you could maneauver to avoid the dfb or even bring your sword up to block the dfb BEFORE it got into a position, but by definition you can't block a DEATH from Behind because, well, you're dead. I really feel that unless we think people pissing blood is cool any notions of blocking a dfb need to be quelled severely.
W
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jgreywolf
Hai Gioco?
Posts:680
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| 04/17/2007 3:56 PM |
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| I am curious if this idea of blocking a DFB has anything to do with the idea that if you hear someone coming you can possibly turn around fast enough to deal with the other fighter quickly enough that they are still far enough away so that their sword tip is not even near your shoulder yet (ie, you hear someone running up behind you and you turn around quickly enough that they are maybe only at lunge distance) |
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Justin Greywolf (SCA: Ramon Diaz de la Vega)
Director
Old World Martial Arts - Teaching Historical Italian Swordplay in the Pacific Northwest |
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KitH
Free Scholar
Posts:64
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| 04/19/2007 2:02 PM |
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I can't see it being blocked. A blade over the shoulder is effectively a blade sticking out of your chest. There's no blocking that.
You need to turn around to engage your opponent before his blade gets to you if you hear them and/or catch a glimpse of an him coming.
I'd like to hear of there's a different view of DFB out there. |
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Kit Heinrichs
SCA: Christopher MacEveny, Cadet to Don Magnus von Bremen |
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Lasairiona
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Posts:87
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| 06/21/2007 12:10 PM |
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I know this thread is a bit old.. But what of disallowing a DFB?
The rules state that the phrase must be stated AND the blade must be put in position in front of face or over the shoulder.
So if the latter part is not completed to satisfaction, can the fighter disallow the DFB?
Just to ad confusion to that. The rules ALSO state that you can only disallow a shot if you see it clearly.
Ergo.. If the blade does not reach over your shoulder or enter into your line of vision you did not see it.. are you allowed to disregard it?.. I think not, however..
I know I've taken DFB's that I've just felt, heard and not seen. I always went for the courtesy call on being glad I wasn't getting stuck through the chest...
thoughts?
Lasairiona |
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Gwydion
Free Scholar
Posts:59
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| 06/22/2007 8:55 PM |
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I agree Lasairiona,
I act on the attitude if I see that blade over my shoulder, or my foe just gives me a shoulder tap...all I think is "thanks for not hitting me...I'm dead"
If the opponent actually says "DFB"... all the better. I think that the verbal part should be looked upon a courtesy to the dead fighter, not an opportunity to turn and attack because "Death From Behind" takes so long to say.
Gwydion |
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God defend me from my friends; from my enemies I can defend myself.
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Romeo13
Free Scholar
Posts:36
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| 06/28/2007 2:52 PM |
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Standard usage across the three kingdoms I play in is its the act of placing the sword across the shoulder, which constitutes the act...
Saying somthing like Your dead Mi Lord... is more to bring it to their attention, and an act of courtesy, and comes AFTER the sword placement...
Now... if you notices someone sneakin up on ya... you can turn and engage them... and I have done so when fighting case before...
I saw him coming, turned to my left to get both my opponents into my 180... parried (had the first guy bound), stepped to my rear to get a better angle, and continued the fight... and boy was he suprised.... wasn't expecting the next riposte...
If you mean parrying behind your back?, as rules state that you have to be within 180 to engage, it seems that would be against the rules. Just as we can't thrust backwards (due to safety reasons), we can't parry back there either... |
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warwick
Provost
Posts:119
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| 07/08/2007 8:30 PM |
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I think the one thing we don't want to have is people squabbling over dfb. This is an interesting rule in our game but so neccessary. We call it a courtesy, but it is essential to safe melee.
For this reason the common denominator for all dfb must be common sense.
When you get the urge to argue a dfb or try to defend against it, ask yourself if we should add kidney protection and perhaps something down the spine as well to our armour requirements. Because that's what rule mongering could lead to. Take the dfb. (if it was questionable deal with it AFTER the battle). Consider thanking the person for not sticking you in the back. Congratulate them on a great maneauver. Remember to hold back a small reserve next battle so your forces don't get rolled up again 
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