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Romeo13
Free Scholar
Posts:36
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| 12/14/2006 4:13 PM |
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Ahhh... SCA Politics...
This does bring up a broader point... what IS the purpose of authorization?
Does it make the authorising martial responsible for the fighter? Or does it say that on this day, they were in control, knew the rules, and were not a danger?
It seems to me that those running the events are the ones who are truly responsible for safe conduct...
As to the politics... you all do realize that Politics have driven more fencers away from the SCA than anything else I know of? That the pettyness of some Martials and the "different" standards they use are a large part of the problem?
I've been to practices where I am greatly complimented (and how often does someone say somthing nice about it...) for my registration... being positive but not hard.... and then told by the "authorising" martial that I'm hitting too hard.... WHY??? That person was using a substandard form of fencing (single time parries with an cross step advance... stepping into my attack which they FAILED to parry...)... I mean this person actualy, when sitting down (lost legs) parries DOWN with their offhand, so any blow is driven into their legs... and then pouts about it... now... do I want this person to authorise me? Do I even go to those practices anymore??? No.... but due to politics this is where I'm "supposed" to go.....
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Arffuidsson
Free Scholar
Posts:71
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| 12/14/2006 5:38 PM |
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Greetings,
An authorization (at least how they are run in the West) is to see if the individual knows the rules and is safe to be on the field. Personally, I’d like to see at least a little skill with the equipment as well. If they have passed the oral (and/or written) question phase (which I will admit I have been a little… thorough in the past), and have demonstrated that they are not a danger to themselves or others, they should pass.
If I authorize someone, and they seem reasonable at the time, I should not be held responsible if they are behaving improper on the field. Now, with that said, if I authorize multiple people who act up and do things that are against the rules, I should have my SM status reviewed (at the very least).
Romeo13, I disagree slightly as to who is truly responsible for safety on the field. We all are responsible. (Examples: I am responsible for checking my equipment before the marshals look at it. We all are responsible for calling a “HOLD!” if there is a safety hazard on the field (at least by the rules here in the West).
As for drama, yep, it sucks pine water through a straw. Unfortunately it raises its less than pleasant head and run people off.
As to where you are “supposed to go”, I say it’s a load of malarkey. Go where you feel the most welcome. (I speak from experience on this one. When I started SCA fencing, I was technically in one barony but felt snubbed by them just because I was a “nobody”. So I’d drive 80 miles one way to fight with the people that I wanted to be around. I had many more of the fun fights, and picked up a few techniques that I do not think I would have if I stayed where I was “supposed” to.)
This is a hobby folks, we should do our best to enjoy it, not bicker about it.
If anyone ever does have a valid complaint against me, please feel free to contact me. I’d like to work out the issue so we can go back to enjoying this game.
In Service to the West,
Staffan Arffuidsson
arffuidson @ yahoo. com |
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Hakim
Scholar
Posts:26
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| 12/14/2006 11:23 PM |
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I stated that your students were not welcome on any of my fields. They are still welcome to come to a practice, but they are not welcome to fight on any list field that I am marshaling. Your student had stated to me that you were runing a fencing club, and that at the meetings they did nothing that involved SCA combat. How as a marshal can I allow people on the field who, through the admission of one of your students, do not learn our rules or practice them? Would that not be a serious lack of safety on my part? If you feel that my e mail is abusive then take legal action against me.
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Hakim
student to Don Enoch |
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Mat
Provost
Posts:123
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MollyModine
Provost
Posts:135
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| 12/15/2006 7:25 AM |
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Hakim
I don't care what a student had said in an off-handed comment that you have twisted to your own advantaged.
They are authorized rapier fighters in the SCA.
You can't band them from official practices or fighting at events ... you are in the wrong. |
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Molly Modine (GdS, Havoc)
Cadet to Monseignor Prospere de Montsegur
Thorn of the Sable Rose, Argent |
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Alvarro
Too many posts...
Posts:301
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| 12/15/2006 9:30 AM |
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Posted By Hakim on 12-14-2006 11:23 PM
...Your student had stated to me that you were runing a fencing club, and that at the meetings they did nothing that involved SCA combat. How as a marshal can I allow people on the field who, through the admission of one of your students, do not learn our rules or practice them? Would that not be a serious lack of safety on my part? ...
Uhm.
I do not train my students to fight in the SCA. They do not practice to fight in the SCA.
I tell them what the rules are, and they adapt *when* they fight in the SCA.
The ability do to that is what authorization is about. It's also why I try to have outside marshals test my students, to make sure I'm being extra honest in my assesments.
I don't train or practice to fight in the SCA, excepting specific tactical training before tournaments.
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Prudence. Temperance. Fortitude. Justice. |
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Alvarro
Too many posts...
Posts:301
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| 12/15/2006 9:39 AM |
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OK, I know you guys have issues.
Fine. We all have people we don't like.
Move on. Each of you needs to look to your own honour first, looking after other peoples is just too much work.
No one, on either side, is looking very good right now. So, you both have some remedial work to do.
If you can't get by in the SCA without trying to "fix" someone else, or if you get all worked up when someone else is doing something "wrong," then you are going to have a miserable time and make enemies.
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Prudence. Temperance. Fortitude. Justice. |
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MollyModine
Provost
Posts:135
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| 12/15/2006 11:44 AM |
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Okay I will not respond back to Hakim on this matter.
Alverro I want to thank you, at least you as a OWS, a Senior Marshal, and Apprentice to Guido, answered what I have been wanting someone to say. For you to say that you teach period rapier that can be adapted to the SCA. And that is what me and my students do, not to mention that we attend other events and practices in the SCA and non-SCA.
To be banned by Hakim for doing this seems unfair and unwarranted and not within his official power.
People have to remember that we do not have many places to play out here in the valley. We now actually have to travel another 1.5 hours on top of the 3/4 of an hour if we want to play in the SCA because of this bias.
And I feel by discussing this out in the open ... it was dicussed in private lots and got no where ... but by discussing it in public I do feel I have kept my integrity, and that of my students and household, for they look to me do defend and lead them, and that is part of my make up and my honour.
For me it is not a matter of who I like or don't like, the issue is/was what the rules allow and don't allow.
Anyhow, at least someone whom I look up to (Alvarro) has posted in public the answers that I needed to have said to give me closure on this subject. Thank you for speaking out. Matter closed. |
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Molly Modine (GdS, Havoc)
Cadet to Monseignor Prospere de Montsegur
Thorn of the Sable Rose, Argent |
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Alvarro
Too many posts...
Posts:301
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| 12/15/2006 12:17 PM |
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Molly, people don't need to know anything.
When I said move on, I meant move on. Don't explain, don't blame, don't "fix."
What you wrote above is going to make Hakim feel like he needs to respond, like he needs to defend himself.
That is just going to make more icky political posts that the rest of either don't want to read, or want to read with beer and chips to laugh over the horrible mess that is being made.
It's ugly.
Move on. |
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Prudence. Temperance. Fortitude. Justice. |
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warwick
Provost
Posts:125
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| 12/15/2006 8:08 PM |
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Sorry my Captain but one more thing MUST be said.
If they are carded fighters, unilaterally banning them from your events is, jeez I don't even know what it is.
Pull their cards and send in the report as to why. Otherwise you are WAY out of line.
Warwick
master of blades, senior marshal, former pirate, newly minted lord, general garb whore and cadet to Dom Alverro
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Mat
Provost
Posts:123
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| 12/15/2006 9:10 PM |
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*BOINKED*
(for relevance; an after thought.) |
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Git-r-dun! |
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Draven
Free Scholar
Posts:65
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| 12/15/2006 9:50 PM |
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I agree Don Alvarro,
Please the both of you move on, this war will not end in the way that may satisfy one over the other. While there are some bitter comments and actions that have occured, we must recall our nobility in times such as these.
As former friends, who have started out on a similar paths, this saddens me to see a greater loss occur than you may know. This is a game, and we all don't have to agree, but we all have a right to play. |
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Draven Mac Raith
Cadet to Monseigneur Prospere de Montsegur
"Scar of Tir Righ" Principality Rapier Champion |
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Morleigh
Free Scholar
Posts:61
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| 01/11/2007 10:19 PM |
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I have yet to be asked to authorize anyone I don't know, but then I do live on the I5 corridor, so there are many, many seniors to choose from.
I feel a strong sense of responsibility for the fighters I authorize because whoever I put out there, other people have to face in tournament. If I see a person consistantly fighting like a steamroller or blowing off shots (or not calling back questionable shots), not a chance, even if they can behave for the duration of an authorization. Technically, I cannot be held responsible if someone I authorize chooses later to misbehave, but I want to know when I do it that they are not the sort of person likely to do so.
So thus far I have only authorized people I know well as fighters. I have nothing against authorizing at a far-off event in principle, but I think the reasons for doing so would have to be good for me to do it.
Morleigh, senior marshal (for about 9 months) |
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